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hi everybody I'm going to kick us off because it is 5:00 p.m. we have almost
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400 people here already and it is climbing steadily but I will just do my introduction bit as people continue to
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sign in my name is Kate Jacobs my work from CIPD thank you all for coming along
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and joining us this afternoon for the second in are really important webinar series on racism and the challenges for
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HR now this session is the second in our free part series and today we're going
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to be exploring how you as HR professionals can go about creating a pro inclusive leadership plan I hope if
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you're joining today that you have watched the first in our series which is on the history behind today's
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underrepresented pame workforce and if you haven't watched it I urge you to go back and do so it was a really really
1:04
valuable session in terms of enabling us all to contextualize the work that's going to come and we need to have a good
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understanding of the history and the context of this issue and start having those conversations Before we jump to HR
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solution earring which I know we all like to do anyway today I'm joined by two really expert speakers once again
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we've got Frank Douglas and Frank is the thread and you'll find running through all of these webinars Frank is an
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influential and expert voice on diversity and inclusion as well as being a former group HR director and he was
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also previously a non-executive director on the CIPD board and we've also got deb modi
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deb is a chartered organizational psychologist he's head of inclusive leadership for amir at YFC consulting
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Deb has worked extensively in the leadership development coaching and diversity space in the last 15 years so
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he knows what you're talking about we're going to listen to him I'm just gonna run through very quick housekeeping as
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ever the session is being recorded you will be able to access it afterwards however you won't be able to download
2:04
the slides questions and we really want you to submit your questions during the webinar could I ask you to use the Q&A
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tab which you can see at the bottom of your screen and use that the questions that you want me to ask Deb and Frank
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but feel free to use the chat box if you want to talk among yourselves I kept an eye on that last session it was really
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fabulous to see people just having conversationally engaging during the session I wanted to flag the CIPD has developed
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a new hub on our website that's dedicated to tackling racism in the workplace and we're adding new resources to that all the time so please do check
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it out and my final bit of housekeeping is our well-being helpline for members in the UK and Ireland which we are providing
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working with award-winning workplace wellbeing provider health assured and that allows us to provide CIB members
2:48
with free help and support via sessions with qualified therapists online or over the phone and you can see details about
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how to access that on the screen now and if you do need to make use of it because it's been a really really challenging few months for people in the freshing
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then please do go ahead so in the last session we explored the history behind
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under representation in the workforce and we reflected on the lived experiences of racism that many black
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professionals and those from other ethnic minorities have faced in the workplace and in society more broadly we
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set the context and we started the conversation and it's conversation CIPD is committed to continuing to facilitate
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among a worldwide community of members and among the wider profession so a last session was about reflection it was
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about listening it was about increasing understanding and today we're moving into action Deb is going to present from
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how HR leaders can create Pro inclusive leadership plan how they can address racism in the workplace and use positive
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leadership to create an environment that supports black and minority ethnic employees and one which challenges
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systemic racism the first Frank is going to kick off with some opening thoughts so I'm gonna disappear for now hand over
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to Frank Thank You Kati and and welcome to everyone I can tell by the numbers
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that some of you were not here for the first session so let you say this time
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but it is a module so a little on for those who aren't here for the first
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session a little backstory very quickly as to why we here um clearly with with
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not clearly but you know with the George Ford Floyd murder it became apparent to me just
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working with my clients and talking to colleagues that you know HR was being called into the office and basically you
4:33
know being asked what do we do how do we respond to this and you know knowing for
4:38
a fact and you know if you're gonna listen to those theories you realize you know we have to be you know we have to be very honest about
4:43
this no one knowing for a fact that you know the the HR profession is over eighty-eight percent white and the
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c-suite is is extremely over eighty eight percent white that you basically had a white HR function trying to advise
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a white c-suite function on how do we deal these issues that was affecting our
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black staff and our leaders and so I contacted Peter and his team and I would
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say they they were very receptive if they've given me total freedom in these
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sessions with no filtering or editing and you know the whole point was we need to equip the HR profession to deal with
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this is the last week's arenas whistle top store on tour about the history and
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some of the vocabulary of race um I think was very helpful indeed I've had
5:33
to do a little slight adjust with myself since last week someone noticed that I needed to decolonize my bookcase so I
5:41
realized I had an author there that wasn't appropriate it same so I'd be colonised my bookcase there but any case
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the whole point is to be very straightforward and honest about you know the issues at N and as we go
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through this journey um you know what we can do is HR professionals to support our staff our leadership and ourselves
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so with that I'm gonna take turn it over to dead on the basis that you know when
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we look at all the different elements of diversity and inclusion probably the most critical one is leadership without
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leadership nothing really happens in any space and so I thought it's very important to have dev take us through
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just the aspects of leadership and in terms of creating an inclusive environment so without further ado dev
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Modi welcome everyone it's great to be
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here and be given this opportunity to speak to you about a very important topic it has been important for for many
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many decades but sometimes it takes for a tragedy to get us to wake up and to
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think more deeply about some of the underlying issues and challenges that are going on for us both within the
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organization's we work for but also in the wider society that we live in so how HR leaders can create Pro
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inclusion plan imagine I am someone who comes from a business psychology background and I've worked alongside HR
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professionals and business leaders for a fair amount of time and I'm a big
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believer that HR is uniquely positioned to create an impact and create change in
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society and part of that is around how we respond to the issues being faced by
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our employees but with something that is very practical and tangible and I think one of the things that has really struck
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me about the recent conversations I've had which has almost been on a daily basis with DNI professionals in the
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industry I've spoken to colleagues from different ethnic backgrounds including
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white leaders black leaders and other ethnic minorities I vote for people in the community in
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which I live and work people from very different backgrounds normal corporate backgrounds actually who have a point of
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view that is different and I think that's something that I've really gone out my way to search as well as also
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getting involved in delivering solutions to a range of different corporates they've got challenges in this space so
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I will bring about my experience to bear during this conversation
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so overview I'd like us to just have a very quick look back the the journey through crisis the here and now
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spotlight the current challenges and opportunities that we have and the future what's the call to action how can
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we use tragedy and challenge to rise up and create actual change so that we're
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not talking about the same problems from one year to the next but we can tell a new story a new story that inspires
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people not just in this current working generation but people are entering into
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the workforce and those were much younger I speak as a a husband a son but
8:58
also a father to a three and a half year old who I would like to be able to
9:05
create a world in which he can feel a sense of opportunity and something there
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he doesn't feel limited because of the way he looks or his background to going
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for those opportunities so for me it's very close to my heart I'm very much driven by my purpose here in terms of
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this agenda in creating a a fairer more equitable society for us
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so I guess individuals we've joined this what has brought you here today you can
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drop down in the comments section we use in the comments box to create dialogue so think about always brought you here
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today is it has this been something has been on your mind for a number of years has it been more provoked by a recent
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event in America would you orange floyd or other instances that happened and
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what is this raised for you in terms of inclusion I remember when Co vid came a lot of
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departments were cut to a court on thermo and I think diversity and inclusion was one of them that during
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crisis during the credit crisis we don't have enough money those things are the least essential we all need to cut the
10:15
things that we can survive without we'll need to cut and I and I believe deny budgets Wakaba already will very small
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if you some of you are from a DNI function or Department you know the deal
10:28
has not been given very big budgets they've been asked to give along with very little and that's causing so many
10:35
challenges so join covert that did happen and then he took for a crisis a
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great tragedy to kind of wake people up to actually this is essential this is really very important for us in terms of
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redesigning the the way we work especially given that the COBIT crisis
10:54
has given us a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to redesign organizations to
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be ready for the future and especially having diversity having inclusion at the
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very heart of what business means to us so I think it'll be interesting to know
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what it's raised for you in terms of inclusion and in terms of diversity
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so the first piece was actually which which phase of the change curve there
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you are at the moment and the first piece was around responding to crisis
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managing the current challenges of the COBIT crisis and when working virtually
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people feeling isolated feeling disconnected by the symptom for some
11:39
people feeling freedom and then there was this case of transition that people
11:45
letting go and entering the new normal and going from post traumatic stress almost depending on how you're impacted
11:52
by this to a sense of birth on opportunity however during this crisis
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we were given another crisis that that was brought to our attention which has
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been the the challenges of particular minority groups in particular black community not just in the US but in the
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UK and Beyond in other parts of Europe as well so it's become a lens through
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which we can I believe evolve diversity and inclusion beyond what we could have done over maybe a decade so I think it's
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a very important time for us to to reinvent who we are as a function as an
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HR function as well is also designed organisations in the right way for the
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future so going from connection to curiosity
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and then to courage finding new ways to connect to each other and train you in
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the way in which we work and in particular thinking about how we engage and connect with ethnic minority groups
13:00
particularly the black community creating a sense of curiosity amidst all the chaos and I don't know about you but
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if you follow the news on a regular basis it can get very very confusing very quickly and also very polarizing
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and therefore we require a sense of curiosity now more than ever around what
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are people really thinking there's one thing that people feel comfortable thinking and saying in public and in the
13:28
organisation in the workplace but often they keep their own biases maybe
13:33
believes to themselves because they don't feel safe enough to reveal them and I know from the world of psychology
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if you don't share and enable an environment where people can surface that real points of view you can't
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really challenge them and you can't find a better way forward so that really will take courage it will take people in this
13:54
group who are listening now to really have find their voice in this whole
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debate of diversity and inclusion put themselves into a position of vulnerability and sometimes take the
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seat of humility as well and it's okay to say that we don't have the answers and we don't understand everything in
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this space I think it puts us in a very strong position to to be humble and to
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challenge those who are presenting one view but the reality is very different than we've seen organizations being
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criticized for that on LinkedIn and in the media around now suddenly caring
14:32
about diversity and inclusion whereas the the history and the politics that they have I'm really showing a real
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authentic connection to this topic I think now is a time to to really put our
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time and investment behind the issues that can really create change so the
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psychology behind fear will spend too much time on this but I think is important too that there's a huge amount of fear right
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now a huge amount of fear in society a huge amount of fear within organizations
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I've spoken to colleagues from many different backgrounds and I just will relay speaking to one particular leader
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who is a white male and he said Dave you know what I really feel safe talking to
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you about this because it feels like we've got that trust but in the wider organization it feels like if I don't
15:21
say anything I will get criticized and I with them someone and if I say something
15:27
I will offend someone and therefore I feel stuck I really feel stuck in terms of what I
15:32
can say and that is because we're in this period of time where there's a huge
15:38
amount of polarization and what gets squeezed out in polarization is actually
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the people who held beliefs that are different from us hold them even more strongly but they hold them more deeply
15:50
quietly behind closed doors and also the people who are in the middle of the
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majority who are neither towards that end of the spectrum or the other can
16:01
become a little bit frozen in terms of how they would respond and I guess you may have experienced that with some of
16:07
your colleagues but hypersensitivity to threat develops
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and especially with the way the economy is right now people are very sensitive they they have more to lose by engaging
16:20
in dialogue than they do by being silent I think that is probably one of the the most dangerous points to be in this
16:26
whole debate when the people that we are working with feel is safe and to be silent and to actually engage in
16:33
dialogue and what that means is that we won't be able to really challenge bias and judgement and some of the systemic
16:40
challenges but faced with different communities so that's a one really big takeaway from this if there's there's
16:46
nothing else which is how can you engage people are having dialogue especially when they think differently from
16:52
yourself especially when they think different thing so what are the the implications for us
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I think there are a number of implications I'm seeing I'm hearing from different people in the the business
17:06
leadership space as well as also in the HR space so there's almost been a rise
17:12
of bias and exclusion and a distrust and disengagement that's happened so people
17:17
are there's a group of people that are have really had the wake-up call and
17:22
they've realized that they've been maybe with their head in this Ram for too long
17:28
they haven't been aware of the impact of racism for different minority groups
17:33
especially with the black community that's been raised recently and they've
17:39
gone into that space of curiosity but there is a another group that are feeling quite excluded from the
17:45
conversation and there's a certain level of distrust in this engagement that I started to build up I mean sometimes
17:51
quite beneath the surface you might not be aware of it until you have those one-to-one corridor conversations which
17:57
before Co vid you could do that you could do that very very easily you could
18:03
have those coffee conversations by the water cooler and surface some of those
18:09
differences will go for a lunchtime war we can't do that in the same way right now and therefore the pressure to engage
18:16
with people on a virtual through a virtual method has become even more important than before is it and
18:24
sometimes there's been a reversal in progress being made in the DNI area and I talked about that early on where
18:30
projects were born hard budgets were cut things were postponed until next year that has started to change your
18:36
organization's are opening up their pockets to invest in this right now but
18:41
it can seem and feel very reactive and it can seem a little bit like a knee-jerk response to the present
18:48
situation that we're going through my ask of you is how can you ensure that
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this is a long-term project a long-term initiative that's integral to the
19:01
purpose the mission of the organization this kind of feeds into this point of psychological safety which you've
19:07
probably come across in other research which is the degree to which people feel safe to reveal what
19:14
they're really thinking and feeling and they don't feel like they will be reprimanded or judged for their views that once view now I know that religion
19:22
and politics have long been off the table when it comes to conversations in the workplace I think that needs to
19:28
change mmm simply for the fact that the line between work and life is has become so
19:35
blurred now and and I think from a point of view of curiosity if we talk about
19:40
bringing your whole self to work what do we really mean by that because bringing your whole self to work will mean for
19:47
some people bringing in their experience of being an ethnic minority for example
19:52
will mean bringing in other aspects to who they are into the workplace as we go
19:57
down this narrative of you're either with us or against us is creating
20:03
polarization and a reduction in psychological safety so that's something to be really careful of in the
20:08
organization and available watch I'll to see the signs of that being compromised
20:14
and and the biggest sign for me is silence when you're in a group and people are silent and they feel afraid
20:21
to talk that's a very big sign that you haven't got psychological safety and that needs to be addressed as we'll talk
20:27
through the rest of this session the final piece is almost an accumulative
20:33
impact on productivity innovation and performance as people are maybe going
20:39
through overwhelm so from a mental health mental wellness point of view I think it's really important to mention
20:45
that there's a huge amount of stress in the organizational system right now not only are people dealing with the
20:50
psychological impact of coded also now they are trying to understand and
20:56
grapple with a society that has not necessarily been as fair as what they were thinking and massive blind spots
21:03
are being made aware to people around the experience of as minority groups so
21:09
I think that level of stress needs to be really carefully managed and I think we need to find ways in which to help
21:16
people find outlets to have safe spaces for them to share what's really going on for them so these
21:24
are some of the implications of the current situation that I'm hearing from people
21:29
and I think the core principles that I'm working by and I wanted to share these
21:35
with you that I think are really important is really inclusion is a is
21:40
just cour to great leadership so is it should not be a standalone in the organization and I think for too
21:46
many years DNI has been a standalone even sometimes a standalone for leadership development in the HR
21:52
department I think DNI needs to be central to the organization and it needs to have a
21:58
voice at the executive level to really create a radical change so I think
22:05
that's that's key and leaders should feel like this concept of inclusion
22:10
inclusiveness which is really the psychology in the mindset of what drives
22:16
an organization to flourish and to allow diversity to flourish that needs to be
22:22
understood that in leadership level this is not third the people are already champions and advocates this is
22:28
everyone's responsibility in the organization so we're seeing a real shift a trend towards that in terms of
22:35
changing competency frameworks values even purpose statements we should not be
22:41
in a position to shame or blame I think there are some narratives out there where organizations are getting shamed
22:49
in public for trying to do the good the right thing CEOs who are trying to do the right thing maybe they will
22:55
ill-advised by internal comms or their PR advisers but I think we need to move
23:01
from shame and blame to dialogue and constructive feedback and I think that
23:07
will really help to shift into dialogue rather than polarization context matters
23:13
so I think we work in global organizations the the needs of someone in Korea and China Turkey for example or
23:22
the Netherlands may well be very very different from the UK and from the US so
23:28
I think having a regional lens is going to be really important as we start to roll out initiatives and ways of
23:35
thinking and mean to apply not just the the US UK centric world view but they
23:41
need to also speak to what view that is very different may
23:47
well be Asia or other parts of of the world so that's something to think about is how do you make the present-day
23:54
situation a catalyst for having a more nuanced understanding of the challenges
23:59
that are going on in the different regions for the organizations that we and the final pieces measurement and
24:06
impact are key so rather than just measuring input and we had X number of people join a unconscious bias training
24:12
session how do we move to actually talk about measuring cultural change and
24:17
shift and engagement but using the psychology of inclusion as part of that
24:23
measurement how do we make sure that leading is measured not just in terms of
24:29
the money that you bring in and how productive you are but it's also about how you lead it's not just about what
24:35
you do to the results it's about how you engage with your team so you have various input into the
24:43
conversation you've got the input of diversity and psychological safety which creates this
24:50
culture that is inclusive that brings together belonging and uniqueness and
24:56
then hopefully leads to these results that the corpora that you work for or
25:02
Enterprise that you work for care about they care about innovation more effective decision-making and a return
25:08
on the investment maybe for shareholders or for the owners of the business but ultimately you want high-performing
25:14
diverse teams that are successful and that requires a closer partnership
25:19
closer partnership between the different key groups within the organization whether it's the employee resource
25:25
groups and HR and the DMI function as well as the top tier of leadership how
25:31
can you engage in dialogue between these different groups so that there is a free and open sharing of information
25:41
so one piece I'd like to stress is the cultural a bit something that I'm sure
25:46
you've come across before it's it's a model that has been around for many many decades the take that we have is how do
25:54
you infuse the different elements of this culture web and you may well have other circles you might want to bring
26:01
into this Web where inclusion and diversity are not an afterthought they're integral to the way in which
26:07
these different circles are designed and how they are evolved within the organization so in terms of the
26:15
organizational structures that you have how did they play to actually removing
26:20
barriers and blocks to specific groups how well do you understand
26:25
the needs of those specific groups and the challenges that they face so I think inclusion diversity need to be part of
26:32
that conversation around organizational design the key influences in the
26:38
organization I think if you've got a senior leadership group that are same
26:43
model cultural as Frank was alluding to it can be very difficult for them to
26:50
sometimes step into the shoes of people different from themselves so I think how do you create experiences for people who
26:57
are different you know white male majority is often talked about how can we create experiences that can help them
27:03
to have dialogue and conversation also to step into the experiences of people different from themselves so that really
27:10
goes to speaking to those influences in the organization and bringing out to
27:15
their attention turning them from being curious and aware of this to become we're becoming real champions and
27:22
advocates I think the the other pieces around the the stories are being told in
27:28
the organization so how do you start to create a narrative within the organization that speaks to the courage
27:37
of various individuals who have challenged various biases whereas blocks
27:42
in the organization or maybe outside the organization so I've been speaking to an
27:49
organization recently who are a giant tech giant and they have got bears policies in
27:57
place now were they using their special position in terms of what they do as a corporate to help not just the employees
28:04
within the organization but also to help the communities that they serve outside of the organization so I'm seeing a real
28:11
trend in the raising of CSR initiatives now and actually integrating CSR
28:18
initiatives with devastating clusion initiatives and this is not just great
28:24
for the employees in terms of engagement is a great brand builder as well you
28:29
have to walk a very fine line in terms of being seen to be opportunistic so doing things extremely simply to be seen
28:38
to be looking good and it can also backfire but I think if it comes from a genuine place and it's authentic I think
28:46
until an organization starts to utilize a special privilege in terms of
28:52
resources intelligent structures to really create a systemic change in society
28:57
III think there's only so much that can be done within the organization there's a real shift in power that you may have
29:05
come across from government democratic power to corporate power I don't know
29:12
whether you agree with that or not rightly or wrongly it's kind of where we are right now and the power that
29:17
corporates can wield in terms of societal change I think it's becoming
29:23
more and more important do you does my organization stand for more than profit
29:30
and I think diversity inclusion really speaks to purpose more than anything else it does speak to profit because we
29:37
know about the research around diversity and how it can help you become more creative make better decisions but there
29:45
is a peacefull on purpose and contribution that is very strong right now and that's something that I think
29:50
should you really be considered as you start to think about initiatives I think
29:57
there are other pieces around talent around how talent is assessed how its
30:03
promoted how its challenged I think if you don't measure the different groups
30:09
minority groups and in different aspects of diversity is very difficult to know if your processes have some kind of
30:17
implicit bias or there's something else going on from a cultural point of view
30:22
so I think that's something that needs to be thought about from a talent HR angle
30:29
so there are there options is being created here and I think there's one
30:35
around redefining systems and processes so finding ways in which you can
30:41
challenge the way in which talent is attracted to the organization I think this is one where organizations need to
30:47
do far more about engaging with various different minority groups who are
30:54
challenged because they don't have access to the same resources either in terms of education in terms of cultural
31:03
capital cultural capital leaders maybe some of you you've come across but there
31:08
are certain elements of growing up where if you'll pop a particular minority
31:13
group you just might not understand the rules of working in a corporate environment you may not be exposed to
31:20
information or the networks that give you opportunities in the corporate environment so I think there's a huge
31:25
amount of education that can be done around cultural capital and I believe that corporates are in a unique position
31:31
to do that I'm working with a financial services organization who are using their special skill around financial
31:38
services to educate underprivileged communities in their local area where
31:45
the head office is in Scotland and that's particularly valuable because they can speak from a place of
31:50
authenticity they can provide massive value because they're not just going out there painting the school
31:56
or doing something that's more of a generic CSR activity but using the very
32:01
high value skill set of their employees to provide access to under service
32:08
communities and you know inner-city London is is it a prime example of that but you know that will vary depending on
32:15
which we can you're in so we know that inner-city schools have particular
32:21
challenges around social issues and access what is your organization doing
32:26
to potentially help in that arena so these these are challenges and questions people think about the other piece is
32:34
repositioning inclusion and diversity how many of you can actually speak to those who are responsible for leadership
32:40
and also the leaders themselves on the exact and speak to them engaging
32:46
conversation awesome through direct emails actually how can we make this
32:53
part of who we are rather than being a nice adult hopefully this is a
32:58
revolution in the way in which we're engaging in this whole debate but I think is really important to think about
33:03
how much of this is at the core of your conversations at the very beginning rather than at the end the third piece I
33:11
would say is around employer brand and customer brand I think there's a merging
33:16
together now of these two concepts because your employees are are your
33:22
brand builders and especially if your employees leave and they go to another organization they will speak about you
33:28
and talk about you and if you have policies are not not Pro inclusion then
33:34
you're going to have your external brand you could say limited in terms of its
33:41
positive impact and the customers also read those particular pieces on social
33:47
media and in the environment out there there's news articles that a lot of the tech giant's seem to have sometimes
33:55
attacked them because they're in quite a unique position of power so even the slightest mistake can be really let's
34:06
say not necessarily exaggerated but you can definitely get a platform very quickly and the media can pick up on
34:12
that so the case for treating your employees were the same loving care as
34:18
you treat your customer I think is becoming more and more prominent so that's another question to really think
34:24
about how much do we invest in our customer experience how much should we invest in treating our customers with
34:31
care and do we show the same level of love and care to our employees and I think the final piece though is around
34:37
creating long-term sustainable change I think both for the organization and
34:43
wider society so with the initiatives that you have right now in terms of your DNI strategy in your leadership strategy
34:50
how much of these have short term impact they're reactive they
34:55
speaking to the the present name Mead versus the planting seeds that will lead
35:00
to long-term change and it really brings my mind to thinking about my my son
35:06
who's three and a half and he will be entering the workforce in 15 years from now maybe a few more years than now and
35:15
I want to make sure that organizations take action now that not only benefit
35:20
the generation that's going into the workplace now but also sets in motion things that will benefit the future
35:27
generation and that requires a very very different way of thinking and we do live in a very short-term corporate
35:34
environment your bonuses are judged on your performance in the last three months or last twelve months
35:40
shareholders look at dividends they look at your your short-term profits and that
35:47
impacts your share price so we live in a very short-term culture in the corporate arena and I I know that the culture in
35:55
the past has been D&I initiatives have also been short-term to reflect that cultural norm that corporate norm we
36:02
need to change that we need to get to a place where as a corporate culture we
36:08
think about the long term but in particular DNI is driving the agenda driving the cultural change that needs
36:15
to happen so this is not a DNI initiative I think if we can stop using the language of this is a DNI initiative
36:22
so this is a leadership initiative this is a culture change initiative I think it will change the way in which people
36:28
respond to this very important topic I think there is some very important
36:34
starting point for us so how do I say we have something called the inclusive leadership model that we've validated in
36:42
the last couple of years which really seeks to simplify the actions that can
36:47
be taken both at an individual level at a team level and also enterprise wide
36:54
level so curiosity how do I keep a sense of openness to ideas perspectives and
37:01
approaches so really ask yourself - am I challenging my own biases and assumptions
37:08
and how am I challenging the fears I might have around creating space for new
37:13
thinking to emerge am i holding on to the past or am i stepping into that space of curiosity and I think that
37:21
plays into courage how do I challenge aspects of myself and others and the
37:27
systems around me that are maybe creating exclusion maybe I've got evidence for that maybe I haven't I've
37:33
got a hunch I've got an intuitive sense and so many of the colleagues I've spoken to they've said to me I just know
37:41
the system is not working I can't put my finger on it and I said well how can you
37:46
get the data because intuition can only get you so far in the corporate arena we
37:52
need data we need facts we need to have evidence that we'll get the majority to
37:57
really take this seriously and that will require challenging processes and systems and individuals who are making
38:04
blocking progress and that will require you to take some personal risk so I
38:09
think if we think about personal responsibility as part of this webinar all change I believe happens at the
38:15
individual level which then you can engage the collective and then you can build a team and build momentum
38:22
so an individual level really think about how courageous vibin and am i
38:27
bringing particularly risky topics into the room for leaders to actually debate
38:33
and have a conversation and the third piece is connection how do i bridge
38:38
across boundaries of difference and find common ground I have spoken to colleagues who have been they've come
38:47
from a very privileged background and it's not to criticize them Bay they will accept that they had a relatively
38:54
upper-middle class background they went to very good grammar school private school they were surrounded by people
38:59
who are very similar to themselves and then they entered the workplace and now in a position of senior leadership also
39:06
surrounded by people with very similar backgrounds that limits thinking in
39:12
terms of the diversity of perspective that they can have so what I would say
39:17
to you and I've said this to them is how do you challenge your existing personal and special networks because for some
39:23
individuals in their professional life they've almost been forced to be diverse
39:28
in their network it's not from choice necessarily it's just because that's the way things are it's a diverse
39:34
organization they're people from different backgrounds but when you ask them what about your personal network if
39:40
I was to ask you list the first the top five people that are your go-to people in your personal life maybe your top ten
39:48
what do those people share in terms of similarities and differences and when
39:55
I've done this with leaders in in workshops of you know sometimes ten 200 mm there's a lot of a modulus answers
40:05
that come back people in when they've got a choice sometimes they choose to be
40:11
with people very similar to themselves and there is a case we may be less natural that's human to a certain degree
40:19
there are certain biases that lead us down that path but I would really challenge you on an individual level
40:26
seek out people different from yourself and build relationships and connections
40:32
are authentic this is not about you going as a scientist and trying to
40:37
investigate dear you know black person dear you know
40:43
female dear gay bisexual lesbian whatever the the the the label is can
40:50
you please give me an insight into your background it's more case of actually building a genuine human connection but
40:57
actually you're someone who I'd really like to get to know and if it comes from that sense of authenticity I think
41:05
people want human connection it's it's integral to who we are as a human race
41:10
and if we can get to that place of connection you build empathy you build understanding but I think leads to much
41:17
better decision-making in the corporate arena so in terms of curiosity courage and
41:24
connection these has really seen as the call of what inclusive leadership means
41:31
and for us and I think it's something that is very practical and also in its
41:38
essence really placed to our human needs are human needs of Trustee courage and connection are common to everyone but
41:44
can we apply this right now to the black community can we apply this to other minority groups can we apply this to the
41:51
majority group I've spent hours and hours and hours talking to white men who
41:56
are in positions of leadership and power and really try to understand where they're coming from understood their
42:02
discomfort and their annoyance and their frustrations and the irritations if you
42:07
can build that level of trust with your leadership not just one-to-one because my challenge has always been to them can
42:13
you speak to me with the same level of openness in the wider forum and their answer is generally no when you start
42:20
hearing yes yes yes yes and enough people are saying yes to that you know you've hit on something that cultural
42:27
shift will take more than one person but it starts with one person and the question is can you be that one person
42:34
so before I I kind of pass it over to questions there are some Muslims as I
42:40
like to send you to help you also if you like to keep in touch please feel free
42:46
to email me but also on LinkedIn as well if there's any questions that you have
42:51
all further resources I can share with you around practical tips and tools and
42:56
techniques I'm very happy to do that I think it's it's an important time for us
43:02
to knock down the barriers and blocks that we've had to engage in connect with each other and actually just reach out
43:09
and have great conversations and I think if they can lead to pragmatic specific
43:14
tangible actions then I think we can create truly a transformational shift in
43:20
the way in to the way in which organizations function right now so thank you very much for the opportunity
43:26
to share the presentation I believe that we're coming to the next phase of this
43:31
conversation which is around the Q&A so very happy surprise to move to that
43:37
should I stop sharing made a note of
43:43
your contact details can I get Frank back as well to any video on Frank no
43:48
thank you and thank you so much Ted I've been trying to keep up with the chat but there are 700 people in there and
43:54
everybody is just typing away so I tried to copy and paste some of the points over when you asked the reasons for
44:01
engaging with this and kind of draw out some of the key themes and I think the things that I saw as they were flashing
44:08
past was a kind of theme of becoming more educated theme about wanting to
44:13
drive and create positive change and a lot of stuff about becoming a better Ally um and people a really powerful
44:22
comment I'll just read out I'm a white CEO I feel helpless I know we are getting it wrong I don't know how to get
44:28
it right and I think that your presentation hopefully offered some some idea about
44:33
how we can start to move towards getting it right um so we've got about 15 minutes for questions there are so many
44:40
comments in the chat and I know there are some questions um if you want anything answered directly could you put
44:45
it into the Q&A because I just can't go through all of the chat I'm afraid and I'm gonna pick up questions from there
44:50
instead although that said I am gonna ask a question that I did see come
44:56
through in the indium in the chat and there's a lot of reflection over this um from black professionals who work in
45:02
largely homogeneous either HR teams and organizations so that it is quite
45:07
emotionally exhausting and challenging to be the person bringing this up the whole time and starting the conversation
45:13
do you have any advice on how to deal with it if you are kind of one among one among not so many yes so it's a common
45:22
thing I've heard from a number of colleagues I've spoken to from black and Africa being backgrounds in the UK also
45:30
with us colleagues and and others and I think it's it's very much it's very
45:36
subjective and it's very specific to the individual so I think there are some of my my connections who actually have been
45:42
really pleasantly surprised by the curiosity so they've really been happy
45:48
with the fact that people are now actually engagement with the topic and they're asking questions and so they've been
45:53
encouraging people to do that and actually using this as an opportunity to become maybe more visible to to get the
46:00
point across so I think that's one thing and and of course there are other people who've actually become really tired
46:05
because I spoke to one colleague recently he was very emotional actually because some of the conversations are
46:12
triggered experiences in his childhood for example or racism and you know he broken down in tears in
46:19
after a particular presentation he felt really tired emotionally and I think
46:24
that overlaid already on all of the tired feelings around kovat I think was a lot for some of the some individuals
46:30
to really cope with so I think it's very much about a case by case situation I
46:35
think like anything you can't put people into a group I think is about understanding and being sensitive and
46:42
checking in I've always found the best thing is check-in it's like I'm really interested in this topic you know I know
46:49
it's a sensitive area for you right now is this something that you want to engage in I mean just asking the
46:54
question and people will say you know what dev I'm really tired of it can you get can you wait a month can you wait a
47:00
couple months and others have said you know you're you're in this space and if I can share with you then you can kind
47:06
of kind of be my voice sometimes when when people ask you the questions so people are sometimes use me and that
47:12
sense of being a facilitator to kind of capture points of view so I'm not sure if that helps
47:18
I do you know
47:27
Deb is much more polite than I am my mind has a as usual more of an edge to it so the first thing is as black HR
47:34
professionals well let me take it back as black professionals in any function
47:40
at any single level we tend to be the one and only so there are many black professionals out there they could be in
47:46
finance or marketing and they're the only black person in their team but clearly you know from an HR profession
47:53
as you go up the ranks it is clear that you're probably the only black senior HR professional some of the things that
48:00
people don't recognize with with like professionals is we think of it maybe as a liability
48:07
but it's also a in opportunity but the issue is hyper visibility black professionals have hyper visibility in
48:14
their organizations so we walk into a room and you know everyone kind of knows us no they may confuse me with way you
48:22
know at different functions but you know kind of one other two is right there's a
48:27
role that we as black professionals have to play which is we have to say you didn't ask me about the talent
48:33
management program you were putting in place you didn't ask me about the new reward process that you are considering
48:39
you didn't come to me above the recruitment you know blind CV program
48:44
that you Institute about asking the only black person on your team I think we have to also let the organization know
48:50
that we are not there librarians the library or everything black expert so if
48:58
you want to include us in the wider conversations around the organization that's fine but if you're going to me
49:04
now because it's urban or was a black topic I think we as professionals have to kind of hold the line a little bit
49:11
and say that's fine I'll help you with this gap but you know I have wider
49:17
insights so it is draining but it's also we have to have a certain Lane that we
49:23
don't allow the organization to just cross over at their convenience which is this is the black topic you're a black
49:29
person help us you know if you want to engage for the collective wisdom of all
49:34
your staff black staff you need to include them in all the conversations and we as black professionals in a jar
49:41
need to ensure that we just don't allow them to come to us for what's the resource what's the background what's
49:47
the what's the relevance of this thank you I can see a lot of people in the in the comments that's really really
49:52
resonated with people um dead we have a few questions from people who perhaps work in smaller organizations or with
49:59
smaller organizations that have constrained budgets they probably don't have anybody who's responsible for DNI
50:04
as it being a like a full job any advice on where to start if you're in a small organization without much resource yeah
50:13
I think there's a couple of couple of areas so I think one is identifying who is really passionate about this topic and has a position of
50:20
influence in the organization that can be a real ambassador of this can be a real advocate so I have worked in
50:27
smaller organizations where you know one of the senior leaders had a particular passion for this so they they made it
50:33
part of their role and responsibilities I think we also call upon external support as well in terms of there are a
50:40
lot of independence out there who have great experience they come from a corporate background and they provide
50:47
insight that you can't get from within the organization and I think that would
50:52
be probably the first two areas to go down yeah I think the other piece is not
50:59
don't be afraid to reach out to your network on LinkedIn and elsewhere in the CIPD Network as well just reach out to
51:07
people and I actually just ask for help ask for connections ask for other people
51:12
to give them support and have the conversation I just spoke to someone today we had a very lively conversation
51:19
very direct and it was like can we just stay in touch so that we've got someone that we can speak to to have that honest
51:25
conversation there's one piece I forgot to mention if it's okay like I just
51:30
wanted to say I think we're in a really pivotal moment where the opportunity is big also the danger and the risks are
51:37
big and I think the biggest risk right now is tokenism and organizations
51:43
forcing in diversity because if they know it looks good and I'm actually rewarding people in terms of bonuses and
51:52
meeting quotas I think this is one of the pieces that I think is really dangerous if it's done in isolation
51:57
because it's a quick way in is that all we can just tick a box and we can say we've got representation but the hard
52:04
work is really around inclusion the hard work is around how do you create a culture that is truly attractive to
52:10
diverse talent diverse talent should be knocking on your door because of your your brand because of you're known for being great
52:17
you know your culture is great your place where I can flourish that's really where the work has to happen and I think
52:24
I've heard of organizations say oh we're gonna have quotas we're gonna have bonuses attached to
52:30
meeting these quotas I've worked in organizations that have done that and it's very dangerous because speaking as
52:37
a minority person I never want to be in a position where I feel I've got the job because they had to give me the job
52:43
because they met they could take a box or they could get their bonus it's the worst feeling possible and I think it
52:49
breeds a culture that's that's quite toxic ultimately I think that's something that we should we should be
52:55
the custodians and the champions of that not happening I think it's a shortcut and it's it's a poor excuse for doing
53:02
the real work around inclusion in diversity thank you Frank somebody's got a question about how to
53:09
successfully embed DNI within the leadership and the business so to move to the to avoid what Deb was just saying
53:16
about it becoming a tick box exercise or they've used the phrase because it's trending right now any advice on truly
53:23
embedding yeah I mean we're working with clients around that area and and and one of the key things we have found in our
53:30
work is that most DNI strategies are not tied to the business objectives and
53:37
they're not based on the business objectives and so what's important is
53:43
that you are able to align like any HR initiative you're able to align DNI to
53:49
the bottom line and so you know there is there's there's enough studies out there that you know and they've been
53:55
referenced that you know DNI increases the likelihood of you outperforming your
54:00
competitors DNI in many ways is about using the collective wisdom of your
54:07
organization increasing all the perspectives into the discussion one of
54:14
my clients is probably tired of hear me saying this because I've been using it as my phrase for a while but it's from
54:20
the Hamilton play but it's it's getting people into the room where it happens and and that in many ways what de nice
54:27
about is getting people into the room where it happens so you have that collective wisdom and you minimize your
54:33
blind spot so it has to be you know if your business is oil fragrance
54:38
broadcasting publishing you know there's a growth strategy in that business and the DNI needs to be
54:45
aligned to the growth strategy and explicit as you can state it to it can't
54:50
be about social events it can't be about outside speakers that's important and helpful but ultimately you gotta tie to
54:57
you know how does this support the business objectives I'm just gonna actually tag on to that for you Frank
55:02
somebody's asked a specific question about working in an industry that really lacks diversity and requires an industry
55:08
change so what can they take an individual within one business yeah you
55:16
can look at my LinkedIn profile I've worked in a lot of industries and a lot of those industries say it's an industry problem um I I don't think it's an
55:25
industry problem you saw a company by company and and and the word that we don't really spend a lot of time on here
55:31
is inclusion I work for again I mean I work for a lot of really really big
55:38
companies I would argue if those big companies had retained retained the
55:46
black staff they had they wouldn't have a demographic an ethnic minority challenged right now they're not
55:53
retaining their staff you know and you can look at my CV and you can see which big companies and thrown about and so
55:59
the issue of inclusion is the one that some people don't really pay attention to so I'm gonna give you my little point
56:04
or what's what's happening in the world and why it's not happening when you wanted to most companies are focused on
56:10
assimilation assimilation says we're going to get this diverse pool of talent into the organization and then we're
56:17
going to create all these programs and courses to get them to fit our mold inclusion says we're going to get this
56:23
diverse pool of talent into the organization and now we are going to reflect on what structures behaviors and
56:30
policies we have to change to accommodate that diverse pool there are
56:36
very few companies really focused on inclusion most of them are trying to
56:41
accelerate the indoctrination into their dominant culture announcer question but
56:51
I'm happy yeah I mean you feel free to build on
56:56
that I'm just gonna Chuck another question in a long time you identified
57:07
psychological safety is being really important somebody said that they have identified psychological safety or
57:13
rather lack thereof of being an issue in their organization so can you share any techniques on how they can create a more
57:18
psychologically safe environment yeah that's a really interesting point so
57:23
I've got some examples one I was asked to deliver a session on unconscious bias
57:30
to a group of leaders for an organization in Europe okay yeah it's a
57:43
type of tech giant tech giant and e-commerce and group of white leaders
57:49
white males who all they had heard about for three years was gender around
57:54
diversity and inclusion nothing really about inclusion but just about gender quota after quarter quota so in their
58:00
head that's all they thought D and I was really about it was about hitting quotas and and feeling quite kind of shine
58:06
about the fact that they're still all white male so there was a level of discontent but also very very limited
58:13
view of what D and I really meant for them so we did a conversation with them
58:18
around identities and everyone in in the organizations that we work were they
58:24
everyone has identities multiple identities and for some people their most salient identity might well be race
58:30
for another person that will be a sexual orientation for somebody else will be social class it'll be the country
58:36
they're from in terms of heritage so there are many different identities and until we get to a level in an
58:42
organization where we can talk about those identities in a way that's comfortable and inclusive people will go
58:49
quiet and they won't talk so these white men were actually really generally quite
58:55
uncomfortable talking about DNI because they always felt it was about other people that diversity inclusion is about
59:00
other people it's not about us and with a problem actually as long as we have
59:06
the majority of leadership thinking they are the problem and not part of the solution they're not
59:11
part of the conversation I don't think we can progress the conversation we need to bring them into the conversation and
59:18
actually feel like they'll pop the dialogue and I've done a lot of work with organizations shifting them and
59:23
saying look I've got a different lived experience to you and you've got differently Big Springs to me now until
59:30
we get to a point where we can share those lived experiences in a way that is fair and open then we can't really
59:37
progress it because then this is what I was talking about the polarization in the mainstream media this is the bit I
59:43
get really annoyed about I'll show you use Frank's words anger be a bit more
59:49
intensive my emotions his polarization is the most dangerous thing that we have right now in terms of a peaceful society
59:56
if we cannot engage in dialogue then we cannot progress the debate and that
1:00:03
means we need to bring people from the senior leadership the exact team we need the people who are the white men in the
1:00:09
organization to feel comfortable talking about race talking about gender talking about sexual orientation all all the
1:00:15
identities that maybe they don't see as being caught to who they are we need to all become comfortable talking about
1:00:21
those things and not feel judged so psychological safety is it takes someone in the organization to step out
1:00:28
and take the risk and to start the debate start the conversation that might come from DNA champions it might come
1:00:35
from HR it might come from the CEO I've worked with some organizations where it's a CEO actually leading the
1:00:41
conversation and they're sharing their own challenges around diversity they
1:00:46
might be from a white male background but you know one particular CEO you know from is a case hero for example so he's
1:00:53
talked about his challenges around being gay another one from a working-class background where he had mental health
1:00:59
issues in his family now that's not speaking to race but the fact they're speaking to their identities they're
1:01:05
being vulnerable means it gives permission to other people to speak about their identities and I'm there's a
1:01:11
boil of one particular oil and gas organization I won't mention the name but they're there the CEO was very
1:01:19
vulnerable spoke about some of their own personal challenges in life it's then our ripple effect in the entire organization and
1:01:25
suddenly everyone was feeling far more comfortable so it does start with senior leaders but doesn't have to be the
1:01:32
senior leaders people have power with with social media and with internal
1:01:37
networks people can become very influential Thank You Deborah I am realizing but it is six o'clock one
1:01:44
plastics actually I'm gonna just carry on for a few more minutes because there's still so many questions coming through back home so it won't be that
1:01:50
much longer um Frank we've had a few questions from people who are early in their HR career um so in their early 20s
1:01:58
what can they do to inspire change if they're not in a position of power um
1:02:04
that's a tough one it is because I you know I I go on the basic belief that it
1:02:10
starts with leadership leadership cast a shadow over the organization and so it's
1:02:17
you know there's not a lot you can do in a junior role other than be true to
1:02:23
yourself no have you said that you know many organizations have employee resource groups and the the benefit of an
1:02:30
employee resource group is it takes those isolated voices and brings them
1:02:35
together and amplifies their voices for the organization um and so you know that
1:02:40
so one thing is to look at you know is there a community similar to yourselves that have a similar social identity
1:02:47
similar issues that you can create an employee resource group around and use
1:02:52
that as a basis of getting your voice amplified the other thing though that
1:02:58
this is a very American thing you know it's the truth is if you were the
1:03:03
organization that doesn't bury you that doesn't respect you that doesn't share your outlook of life leave you know
1:03:11
there's this that there's a whole industry out there based on that and and and you know they're not gonna you know
1:03:17
um you know from cradle from from great from cradle to grave you know that that
1:03:23
doesn't exist anymore so you know at some point cut the cord and that that's if I had two or three more minutes I I'd
1:03:31
even go deeper into that but you know ultimately no matter what level you're at if a company isn't
1:03:36
respecting you using and leveraging your abilities to the best that you think they should this this 3,000 more you
1:03:44
know PLC's out there why don't you have any advice if you're more junior on
1:03:49
having a voice and having that voice heard yeah I've thought of you because I found my experiences that actually
1:03:56
sometimes the more junior people can have a massive impact I mean a lot of it depends on the culture of the organization but I know at least why I
1:04:04
see some of the more junior members have actually been the real spearheads for raising certain topics and bringing it
1:04:11
to the attention of the wider organization so I think is it's a balance of course I think senior leaders
1:04:16
I agree with Frank they have disproportionate impact on the organization so you do need you do need
1:04:22
sponsorship from the senior leaders but if they can empower and say to the the more junior people in the organization
1:04:27
you have a voice and we give you permission to speak about this we give you resources to have your voice heard
1:04:34
whether that's a DNI champions group or an ERG or any other initiative I think
1:04:40
if those individuals are given a voice in a platform with the coming of social media and in the generation that we have
1:04:48
now have grown up with a smartphone I think influencer is sometimes less about years and seniority and more about
1:04:55
your message and I think if you've got a very powerful message and you believe in it I think you'll get the attention of
1:05:01
senior leaders there will come a point where you need to get seen leaders on board but you may have to start grassroots so I think he's a little bit
1:05:07
of this kind of top-down and also grassroots and I think there's a case to be made that actually all of it needs to
1:05:12
happen you can't just wave from the top down and you can't just wait for the Gossard's it all needs to happen but given your
1:05:19
role where can you really make the impact and maybe you touch all of those maybe just touch one of them but I don't
1:05:26
think anyone's got an excuse I think I think what I'd like to do as far this this session is no one has an excuse for
1:05:33
not doing something proactive and inclusion is we all own this this is not
1:05:39
something I own or Frank or or anyone else we all own this agenda we cannot
1:05:44
have a peaceful society if organizations are not inclusive and if
1:05:50
we don't address some of the social disparities and other challenges in society through the corporate power that
1:05:57
we have I think our children won't have a beautiful world to live in and that me so I think that's something
1:06:04
that I'm very adamant and passionate about so more compassionate view of the
1:06:13
world is that you know one of the HR
1:06:20
capability than the HR professional roadmap is courage and I think people struggle with what is courage in a jar
1:06:27
you know it's not like a farm in running to a burning house and it's not a service men you know charging up the
1:06:33
hill you know with enemy fire I have a very basic definition of courage for HR
1:06:38
professionals and it pertains to this ultimately courage in for HR professionals is championing an
1:06:45
unpopular cause so you know let me just soften a little no word I said to you
1:06:51
know but if your junior in the organization but ultimately you know a courage for HR professionals is you have
1:06:57
to champion the unpopular cause and aspects of D&I has been and and and and
1:07:03
still are unpopular causes so if you want to be a courageous HR person if
1:07:10
there's ten people in the room and you know and you hope that one dissenting voice you stand your ground as long as
1:07:15
you can and that's courage for the profession thank you thank you for hang out a few people have commented in the
1:07:22
in the chat and the Q&A about the value of reverse mentoring relationships that they put in place in their organizations
1:07:27
I'm gonna have to close every day but I just like to give a final thought to you my final thought is coming back to or
1:07:37
frankly I think courage curiosity and connection and read sum it up for me
1:07:42
in terms of the three things I'd like to leave the audience there if we can focus keep it simple it there's a lot of
1:07:49
complexity out there and there's a lot of emotion and the challenge of the emotion is that it can make things that
1:07:54
actually climb it's simple very difficult to see your way through and I've heard that from so many people
1:08:00
recently is all this stuff is really tough and it's really difficult and it's so complicated and you get frozen by the complexity if
1:08:08
you really step back this is about us really getting back to basics and about
1:08:13
the fundamental needs that we have as human beings and actually a world that
1:08:18
is fair and equitable for everyone is a world that we want to live in and and for that reason we need to support
1:08:24
different groups potentially today one particular group might get more of an
1:08:30
emphasis or a focus maybe next year a different group I think if we can tackle
1:08:35
these groups but really look at underlying causes rather than the effect and I think we can get to the root of
1:08:41
the challenges that we face which come down to actually everyone wants to deep
1:08:47
down be in a world where we are inclusive and we're connected with fuller sense of belonging and we also want to be unique so we want to be
1:08:54
respected and appreciated for our unique identities we also want to feel a part of something bigger than ourselves and I
1:09:01
think this particular debate of inclusion meets those two human needs but there are paradox because they
1:09:07
sometimes fight each other and I think that's what we're playing with right now is it is that fight between the two
1:09:13
human needs let's find a way of unifying them and we come to a much better place as we evolve the debate thank you that's
1:09:22
brilliant really enclosing thought I can see from all the comments just how much people have valued this session just a
1:09:28
few points for me to make at the end and then a lot of questions which came up about what the copd is doing both
1:09:34
internally and how we are working with the community I deliberately didn't ask those because next time on Wednesday we
1:09:40
have a session where Frank will be joined by our CEO Peter cheese so I'm going to copy those questions across and
1:09:46
hold on to them for next time um also comments that would have been great to have even more questions sorry for
1:09:52
running over but I felt exactly the same and I think in the next session we will definitely have more time to make it
1:09:57
more of a conversation my thing that I'll take away from this dev is that comment you just made about that it's
1:10:03
not an option for anybody to do nothing because everybody can do something just love that so thank you so much that was
1:10:10
absolutely brilliant it was inspirational Frank thank you as ever for your fantastic one point I see resonated with so many people and
1:10:17
thank you everybody for watching because I'm just overwhelmed and blown away by the number of comments there are going
1:10:23
down the side so thank you all and do tune in on Wednesday where we'll you'll
1:10:28
be continuing the conversation that's it from us for now so please everybody have a good evening goodbye thank you thank you everyone
1:10:35
will the best danger
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